Question about astrology?

Question about astrology?
Astrology can for starters simply be the placebo effect playing its part, right? Astrology claims that your going to be a certain way based on date of birth and time of birth but that takes away your free will. If you believe in free will you can not believe in astrology, they simply contradict each other. You have no control over the date and time in which you were born so how can someone say that this can dictate someone’s personality?

Suggestion by GibBas
I don’t think you even begin to understand astrology from what you’ve said. Your birth chart can tell you what challenges you face and how you can improve your life. It cannot tell you that today you’re going to meet someone who’ll change your life etc nor can it predict the future for you.

Suggestion by Antares
Although your understanding of astrology is limited, you make a good point. This has been a buagaboo for astrologers since at least the time of St. Augustine of Hippo (4th century AD). But a good point or a valid criticism is not the same as a complete negation and the problem is more complex.

Your objection is philosophical so let’s look at this the way a philosopher might. What is free will? Most people confuse free will with free whim. They are not the same. Yes I can choose to jump in front of an ongoing train to prove a point (the last one I will prove), but that isn’t the same as free will. Free will has more to do with how I think and secondarily, how I act.

Way too much emphasis is placed on the almighty personality in today’s astrology. But if we grant that is what astrology does (I don’t buy that for a minute), let’s reverse the question a bit: does Freud deny free will? We have no control over how we are raised and the “nurture” crowd in the nature vs nurture debate, says this determines our personality and our future actions and beliefs. If they are correct, and to some extent it seems they are, do we really have free will? Telling an habitual liar they don’t have to lie only makes sense to people who don’t habitually lie. The liar nods eagerly, and goes right out and tells another lie. If he breaks down a bit he might tearfully say, “I cant’ help it.” And some psychologists believe that.

One philosopher, said, “Man has a free will just not the will to use it.” I really like this statement and it plays into the astrology vs free will debate. Suppose you go to an astrologer at age 25 and you ask about your financial situation. He tells you that at about age 35 – 40 you can expect a period of deep financial difficulty. He is NOT telling you that no matter what you will experience 10 years of poverty, although in the middle ages or before that might be the case since they would have had so many fewer options. He’s telling you the bad times are coming. Being a bright type you heed the warning. After all, if the astrologer is wrong, there is nothing wrong with saving money.

The bad financial times may come, but if you prepare, the loss of a job or lengthy injury that prevents you from working or having a huge problem with your home, it lessens the effects of the difficulty. You may still be in financial difficulty, but it becomes more manageable because you prepared. Or you can do nothing live lavishly because astrology is hokum and when the difficult times come, you moan.

In all the above scenarios, you’ve followed your free will. The bad financial times can be said to be a product of your will as you lived as though there was no tomorrow or simply didn’t plan for the future. Fate may have broken your leg and kept you from working or did something else that harmed you financially, but your lack of planning did the real dirty work. Did you need the astrologer? Not really. Smart people sacrifice today for benefits tomorrow without astrologers and some put away money for emergencies without consulting the stars. Good for them.

OK what about other things besides money? Suppose the astrologer predicts a bad marriage. This is trickier, but if you enter marriage blindly (like most) and it turns out bad or good, you’ve used your free will either way. Ahh but can you turn a prediction for a bad marriage into a good marriage? Yes, but it takes time and timing. Then there is the possibility that the marriage will be bad not because the couple has chosen poorly, but because of events beyond their control, e.g. the accidental death of a child is not easy to overcome and many don’t. Whether that is fated or not, free will has little to do with what caused the resulting divorce or worse.

The biggest problem with fate vs free will is that the free will crowd denies fate. Fate exists, too. Ask anyone born with diabetes.

William Lilly the famous 17th century English astrologer used to say often, “The stars foretell, they do not compel.” And they do not negate free will.

Suggestion by Been There
Obviously, you don’t understand how Western astrology approaches astrology.

What you are talking about is the WRONG way to use astrology.
Sidereal/Hindu/Vedic astrology uses it this way .. but then the Hindu paradigm is that everything is fated anyway.
Which is probably why their astrology is fatalistic.

Westerners believe in free will.
And they regard astrology as an influence on us .. and that the chart indicates only the way in which we feel our inner needs and how these different inner needs interact.
Therefore, astrology is properly used as a platform for beginning to look within yourself and learning to understand who you are and what you need.
In Tropical/Western astrology, there is an old saying: “The stars impel. They do not compel.” Which means that the chart is not a controlling influence .. .but it is an influence. How much? That depends on how self-aware you are. The more self-aware you are, the more YOU chose and control yourself. And the choices that you make .. these are the factors that influence what happens to you in life.

Western astrology looks at the influence this way:
Every moment has its own unique quality, and the chart shows that quality. When we take our first breath, the quality of that moment is imprinted on us. As an influence. Therefore we TEND to feel and act like our chart .. but free will is King and is the ultimate control. Not that many people really USE free will. But examining your chart helps you understand your internal dynamics and the more you know yourself, the more you are in control.

It is not astrology that robs us of our free will .. it is failing to see ourselves clearly.
Since we tend to repress and deny any unpleasant feelings, including feelings about ourselves, very few people actually DO see themselves clearly. The examination of your own birth chart forces you to open up and look inside with a critical eye … that chart says “this” … is that actually true? .. you cannot answer this question unless you open up and look inside with a critical honest eye.

Give your answer to this question below!

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What makes you doubt astrology?
I’m asking this because I’m seriously beginning to see some of the less favorable sides of astrology. Well, sure, charts and calculations are interesting but I’m beginning to think that astrology remind me of bigotry and racism. Like “I am on this side and You are on the other side” or “I am red and you are green, we don’t match”. That’s not really reasonable, or is it? It’s build on prejudices. For example, I’m hearing how “virgos are prude, leos are arrogant, libras are shallow, scorpios are powerful ” etc etc.
Sure, some of you might tell me “well you don’t know astrology, you have no knowledge of astrology etc.” but I never claimed I knew anything! I’m here to discuss and learn and I think the majority of posters in here are in the same position, except for some that have astrology as a profession.
My friends and I do our charts on free calculating websites and look up some things in my books. it’s entertaining but when you start taking this too seriously and setting some judgmental frame of mind according to astrology, that’s scary.

So what makes you doubt astrology?
wow, thank you all for your answers. very interesting to hear your opinion.
just letting you know that I am not the one thumbing you down. my haters are back, that’s all Image may be NSFW.
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Suggestion by k
Double astrology 2 x stoopid

Suggestion by Misconception
I take it as entertainment. If you keep your thoughts to yourself and treat everyone equally it won’t be so bad. It occurred to me before but it was in my personal interest so didn’t worry much. Out in reality any hard working individual will always achieve.

Suggestion by All My Intensity
when people make generalizatins like judging on sun sign alone. it makes me *sigh.* I mean if they’re not serious, it’s funny. some people haven’t dug deeper, beneath the sun sign astrology. it’s okay, cuz everyone’s learning. but if theyre stubborn to dig beneath, it’s kinda like they’re boxing themselves in.this knowledge shouldn’t be limited by four walls Image may be NSFW.
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What do you think? Answer below!

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